3. Sail window size proposal wording

Home Forums IDNIYRA Technical Committee Discussion 3. Sail window size proposal wording

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  • #300
    Richard LarssonRichard Larsson
    Participant

    I agree it would increase safety. The last wordings are fine.

    #292
    Peter HamrakPeter Hamrak
    Participant

    Tomas Lindgren’s proposal is not suggesting any text for the ballot, it is just giving an idea and not even a definite one.
    There is an option to reject it as it should have been written in specification language, but since the CGG embraced the proposal we should figure it out.

    Shall we decide if the proposal should be 20% more window or a minimum size?
    I think if the last one would be our choice, then the whole sail could be made out of monofilm… that does not make much sense.
    I suggest we should handle this as enlarging the possible window size and make the minimum area also larger:
    ORIGINAL:
    G Sail
    14. A window in the sail is required. The window may be any shape and placed in several sections
    English Metric Area (sq. in. and sq. cm.)
    Max Min Max Min
    1000 100 6452 645

    CHANGE TO:
    The max size could be 1500 sq. in. or 9677 sq. cm 
    and the min size 1200 sq. in or 7742 sq. cm

    Let me know what do you think ASAP, if I may ask, please.

    #294
    Steve OrlebekeSteve Orlebeke
    Participant

    This is the first I have heard of this. I’ll start with two questions:

    1)What are the window areas on existing sails? I assume they are all close to the maximum.

    2)Is there a problem with the current maximum size limit? I personally haven’t had an issue.

    I do agree that the current minimum area of 100 sq. in. ,645 sq. cm is a safety issue and should be increased. Increase the minimum size to an area that doesn’t outlaw sails that are being currently used. Peter, your suggested range doesn’t fit any existing sails. Maybe something like 900/5806 minimum to 1200/7742 maximum would be better? 1500/9677 seems like too big of an increase to me.

    Steve

    #295
    Peter HamrakPeter Hamrak
    Participant

    Yes, you might be right. I did not count existing sails as they could be eligible for the rules prior, not necessarily needs to apply to the new rules, just the newly made sails should be.

    The need for the rule was that Tomas had a bad accident on the last WC. He claimed that he couldn’t see the other as the windows are too small and too much at the back. I can agree as safety first!

    I did not want to make a smaller minimum size than the previous max to encourage the sailmakers to cut bigger windows. The approximate 1 sqm max I suggested is not a very large size.

    #296
    Jeff KentJeff Kent
    Participant

    Since this request from EU meeting is without details I would think the biggest issue is the blind spot created with the rigs bent out and sails low on mast. The forward visibility for skipper is very obstructed down low and in way of tack area of sail. I have attached PDF diagram demonstrating a window area of aprox. 1325in^2 or 8555 CM^2. I also have a added that window area reach within a minimum of 20 cm from luff of sail and must be located inside a min 40 cm radius of tack I would think , (not knowing the limitations of window materials) that a maximum size should be as suggested min 1200 in^2 Max 1500 in^2 this could be an issue on the larger size window proposal 9.25.20

    #297
    Jeff KentJeff Kent
    Participant

    one thought

    are there window materials that are less reflective for those sunny days?

    #298
    Peter HamrakPeter Hamrak
    Participant

    Thanks, Jeff nice picture! Very good idea, the location restriction. So, should the text be like:
    14. A window in the sail is required. The window may be any shape and placed in several sections.
    INSERT: The windows shall reach a point at least 20 cm from the luff or 40 cm diameter from the sail’s tack.
    English Metric Area (sq. in. and sq. cm.)
    Max Min Max Min1500 1200 9677 7742

    #299
    Peter HamrakPeter Hamrak
    Participant

    Sorry I did not want to write diameter, but radius.

    So the Insertion would be like:

    The windows shall reach a point at least 20 cm from the luff or 40 cm in a radius of the sail’s tack.

    Thanks!

    #301
    Jeff KentJeff Kent
    Participant

    any changes to the specifications on the window as we are discussing should apply to only sail manufactured for xx xx xxxx date existing sails to be allowed time will take care of this for us over several seasons with most active sailors first

    #302
    Peter HamrakPeter Hamrak
    Participant

    Yes, I agree with Jeff.

    #303
    Jeff KentJeff Kent
    Participant

    This proposal will not make upcoming Ballot, Request is much to vague to write proposal to . the concerns are valid for looking into this issue.

    Sailmakers should be involved or at least consulted with in order that we do not create unreasonable restrictions to which may create issues with sail materials , loading. etc.

    JK

    I intend that this discussion continue in order to come to a good viable proposal

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